I recently purchased what was said to be a Waltham Springfield pocket watch, however the movement number matches a Waltham Vanguard watch. The barrel bridge shows Springfield 21J. According to the Pocket Watch database the movement should be a 23J lever set. This one is a pendant set. Can one of you Waltham experts tell me what I might have here? Are there any other distinctions between the two models? Thanks

To all... this is my mistake. The Waltham is a Riverside NOT a "Springfield". Not sure where I got that. At any rate, the movement still shows as a Vanguard, not a Riverside. Any other distinctive marks that could help me identify, or are the barrel bridges interchangeable between the two watches? Sorry for the confusion.

Pictures, s/n would be helpful

Roger

thanks Roger, The movement number is 28882960. I'm trying to figure out how to upload pics. The JPG files I have are too big and the Word doc is not an accepted format. I will post pics when I have it figured out. Thanks Kelly

Here are two separate pics as the combined file was too big.

pic 2

28882960

Kelly,

Waltham serial lists (the "Gray Book") designate the run 28,879,001-28,883,000 as Grade "Vanguard" with 23 Jewels. It was common for Waltham to combine similar consecutive runs within these serial lists. As a result, it is not unusual to find a movement within a run that does not precisely match the factory lists. When in doubt, trust the watch.

Your movement would certainly be classified as a 21-Jewel Riverside.

Thanks Nathan. I will trust the watch

Do you have a clear photo of movment, it may reveal plates changed.

Healthy skepticism is always beneficial. However, in this particular situation, even with the blurry images, there is enough evidence to identify the movement as an original 21-Jewel Riverside (No. 1621). There are various distinguishing differences between this Riverside movement and the 23-Jewel Vanguard of the same vintage.

1. The 23j Vanguard would feature Ohlson's 1908 regulator instead of a simple regulator
2. The 23j Vanguard would be marked “6 Positions” instead of “Adj. Temp.”
3. The 23j Vanguard would feature screw settings on the top center jewel.
4. The 23j Vanguard would feature capped pallet fork.
5. The 23j Vanguard would not be marked with “Jeweled Main Wheel” on the barrel.
6. The 23j Vanguard would feature raised gold settings (most evident when analyzing the top balance jewel).

With several other minor differentiations to provide additional support, we can be assured that this is not a Vanguard that has been a victim of plate swapping. The finish, markings, and other traits are entirely consistent with the 21-Jewel Riverside (No. 1621) that Waltham was producing at the time.

With that said, uploading clear images would be prudent for further evaluation, support, and documentation.

Thank you all for your responses. I am new to this hobby and have a lot to learn. All of your inputs have allowed me to know that "I have a long way to go" when it comes to my knowledge. Thanks
Two pics to follow.
Kelly

Pic 2

if you are skilled to remove the balance cock you may want to check the serial number stamped in bottom.
There are a good few other things that dont look right either.

Thanks Chris, I will endeavor to do so and will post when I have completed it. Also another thing that is apparent is that it is not the original case. I'm sure that is not a revelation based on the age of the watch. The current case is a "lever" set case but the watch is pendant set. Thanks

Hi Kelly,

We may appear to be a bit harsh in judgment on this watch, I am sure for what you have in it $$ it may well be a nice runing carry watch, it may well be a created watch , you would need to strip it and check all numbers to be sure. Either way if it runs ok, a fun watch to have.
There are not many watches that have original cases and are exchanged for many reasons on the often 100yrs of use.

Thanks Chris, I don't mind "harshness". It gives me pause when I look at watches. This was an on-line purchase so it was impossible to dissect the unique features of this watch. It runs a couple of minutes slow but I am tweeking the speed to see if I can bring it up to snuff without replacing the mainspring at this time. Thanks again for your insight and I will be in touch with you.
Kelly