Ball Queen Question?

July 19, 2005, 22:15

Samie L. Smith

Here is a ad from 1899 for Ball Watch Company in which they show the 0 size Ball Queen ..they show in the ad four Dainty little Queens B of L.E. etc. 4 different ones...has anyone ever saw one of these..i would think these are a rare item..

July 20, 2005, 08:41

Lindell V. Riddle

Ball Queens are very interesting, for some reason they made them in both 16 and 17-Jewel, in fact there were mixed runs with both configurations. Some of both jewel-counts are marked "Adjusted" and a few 17-Jewel versions display sun-ray damaskeening. Some had Brotherhood dials and there were a very few genuine Open-Faced Queens. My understanding is these were all produced by Waltham to Ball Watch Company specifications. I do not think the example on eBay had a multicolored signature on the dial. Ball Queens were produced as early as 1896 and apparently by 1904 production had ceased, but they were sold for many years later

Like everything that Webb C. Ball touched these little "Rail-Road Queens" are a fascinating part of the story. The hands shown on this and the next one are the more desirable style to most collectors.

16-Jewels Adjusted, B. of R. T. Queen 7777402 c. 1896...

July 20, 2005, 08:42

Lindell V. Riddle

Open-Faced 17J. Adjusted RR Queen, Number B642434...

July 20, 2005, 08:43

Lindell V. Riddle

A few Ball Queen movements became wristwatches...

July 20, 2005, 10:03

Samie L. Smith

Thanks Lindell for the info and for the pictures...I was looking through some old books for some information on a South-Bend watch and came across this add..,,I had never saw a Ball Queen and did not know they came with the brotherhood marked dials and movements..most of the time i dont look at the small pocket watches but i will from now on..

July 20, 2005, 14:26

Peter S. Balkan

I bought one a little over a year ago. I have a weakness for gold-hunters of any kind and this one was in especially good shape. That and the fact that it was a Ball, that I'd never seen....

In my database, I have it as 19 Jewels but I am willing to stand corrected and correct the data.

My specimen has a very unfortunate repair to the dial, otherwise I might call it "mint" whatever that means!

July 20, 2005, 14:27

Peter S. Balkan

Here's the lovely 14k case that sold me on it

July 20, 2005, 14:27

Peter S. Balkan

Here's the movement. 19 Jewels or not????

July 20, 2005, 18:01

Tom McIntyre

Is there a cap jewel on the escape wheel? I thought some of these were 19J also but I have never bought one.

July 20, 2005, 19:12

Peter S. Balkan

There is no cap jewel on the escape wheel. The case is 14K Keystone. SN of the movement is B056925.

July 21, 2005, 00:07

Tom McIntyre

I would be really surprised if these little beauties were to show up with an internal jeweled barrel. So, if you see no cap jewels, it is 17J.

July 21, 2005, 00:46

Lindell V. Riddle

Peter's watch B056925 is from an Adjusted 17-Jewel mixed run of both RR Queens and Railroad Brotherhood Queen movements. Interestingly I have B056959 in my collection which is also a Solid-Gold Cased RR Queen from that very same 1901 run of 500 movements as Peter's watch.

There were also earlier 16 and 17-Jewel Unadjusted Open-Face and Hunter-Case movements. Those 0-size movements were based upon Waltham's "1891 Models" which were produced without exposed winding wheels unlike the later watches shown above in this topic.

July 21, 2005, 08:38

Tom McIntyre

I should have said "at most 17J" in my previous post.

Lindell,

Do any of the Brotherhood Queens have brotherhood markings on the movement?

July 21, 2005, 12:55

Lindell V. Riddle

Good question Tom,

I do not recall having come across or knowing of a marked as Brotherhood Queen movement, my understanding is the dial and hands are what would make a Queen qualify as a Brotherhood watch. I do not claim to be expert on this in fact I'm not sure anyone really is. The movement number information can be confusing since they were produced in "mixed runs" and for that reason with Ball Watches so-called "variants" are almost the norm and oddities are possible.

Perhaps the 19-Jewel listing we find in reference books is a fallacy. One could also question if there were "Ball-Model" cases for these. Actually the "Ball-Model" case marking became common after the Ball Queen production era. A few Queen movements ended up cased as wristwatches such as the one I shared earlier in this topic. That dial is marked as "Ball Watch Company, Cleveland" which is a dial we find on many hunter-cased Queens.

Like I said above, this is often confusing.

Lindell

November 21, 2015, 09:48

Keith Klimkowicz

Wow

Came across this EB item that is closed.
Ball queen serial number B642437. Look up at Lin post from July 20th 2005 08:42. He has B642434. Wow three numbers different.

Keith