Does the "I.W.C." on this Illinois Independent Watch Co. dial stand for "Illinois Watch Co." or "Independent Watch Co."? I am trying to decide if this is the correct dial for this Independent Watch company 11 jewel transitional movement.

Thanks,
Harry

Hi Harry , I am not sure about the dial , but I thought iwc was illinois , and independent would have been marked independent of fredonia , or howard bros , and maybe blank

That was might first thought also Kevin. But the few Independent Watch Co. movements I have seen have been mainly the Hampden models. I don't know much about Illinois but I have an 18s Illinois dial and the feet do not match the I.W.C. dial. I don't know if Illinois hunter and open face dials have different feet patterns or not. I have an unmarked dial with the same feet pattern that I did not know what movement it went with but I know now. The movement is a transitional 5th pinion model and I don't know if the foot pattern on the 5th pinion models differ from the other Illinois models.

A picture of the dial and the movement would be helpful as would the serial number of the movement. A picture of the back of the dial also.

Illinois Watch Co. started using that name around 1879. The dials were signed "I.W.Co."

The dial foot pattern on the early dials were;
Models 1,2,5; 16.5/36.5/53
Model 3; 1.5/21.5/38
Models 4,6; 2/21.5/38.5

regards,
bb

Buster, correct me if I've got this wrong.

The fifth pinion was used to convert a hunter to an open face movement, Illinois Model 3.

The spacing between the centre hole and the seconds hole will not allow other open face dials to fit.

Hence model 3 dials (1.5/21.5/38.0) will only fit model 3 mvts.

Sounds like you have it Lorne !!

regards,
bb

Alright here you go. The unsigned dial seconds hole matches also. Thanks for the info about the seconds hole also I did not know that or check it but I have now and it does match the I.W.C. dial.
This is a transitional 11 jewel movement. SN 180906.

Thanks for the help. The I.W.C. dial is in pretty bad shape I am just trying to find out if this is an Illinois dial or a Independent dial. I have a white unsigned dial I can use on it if this is the wrong dial.

Harry

Movement

Your movement is an Illinois Model 3 made for Independent Watch Co. During this 1879 period the Independent Watch Co. used other manufacturers to make movements for them.

Black dial ?? Interesting. It obviously was made for an Illinois Model 3 movement, if it fits your movement.

Perhaps others could show their examples made for The Independent Watch Co. by Illinois during that period and it would be a big help...

regards,
bb

Thank you Buster. Me personally feel this dial is the wrong dial for this movement. But I.W.C dial may have served a dual purpose for Illinois Watch Co. and Independence Watch Co. ???

Maybe someone will have some more information.

I agree with you Harry that the dial is incorrect, I have only ever seen "I.W.Co" dials on 7 Jewel watches Marked I.W.Co on the plates.

All the Howard Bros or Independent marked movements I have seen over the years are marked as I have stated below in the last 2 paragraphs.

I think the line done by Illinois which were for the Iowa Watch Company, was either a marketing ploy by Illinois Watch Company to market low grade watches, or in my own opinion some Private Label Buyer.

I have four Illinois made Independent Watch Company watches with two different types of dials spread across two different Serial number blocks.

The earlier Serial block has a dial that is single sunk and marked on the dial with "Howard Bros Fredonia N.Y." these movements are Marked just with "Independent" in block script on the movement and Fredonia N.Y. in Fancy script on the barrel Bridge.

The later runs are also single sunk and marked on the dial with "Independent Watch Co Fredonia N.Y." on the dial. The movement is marked the same, but all in fancy script.

Thank you Bila. I agree with you. I have a blank dial it is SS white with Roman Numerals. I believe it is incorrect also but I think it would be closer than the Black I.W.C. dial.

Also does anyone know if the value on an 11 jewel transitional movement would be about the same as the other Illinois Independent movements? The Price guide does not mention the 11 jewel transitional movement. I assume it is a 1 Star movement also.

In between my first post Harry and now I found another movement that is the same as yours but carry's the earlier dial marked "Howard Bros. So it looks like you could probably use either of the two I mentioned and still be correct.

I could possibly have a spare dial floating around here somewhere. If you can not find one closer to home let me know and I will have a trawl through the dials to see.

Cheers

Good deal Harry , you picked up the independent with the silver balance bridge , I passed on these thinking they where repairs ! Now that I know better I have not been in the right place to pick one up , patience will win out . I will keep my eyes open for a dial

Thank you Bila. I have been looking but so far I have come up empty. I will keep you in mind. Thanks!

Yes Kevin I saw that also and I asked the seller if the numbers matched and he said he did not know. I did a little research and found a reference to the silver balance so I bought this one. It needed cleaning and a new mainspring and the banking pins needed adjusting but it is running fine now.

Hi Harry , ebay has a dial ,marked howard bros

[eBay link removed as this is a public forum]

[dial image posted]

Way off topic. IHC brings to mind international watch company.
Did this Swiss company have America roots?

Thanks Kevin the feet do not match on that dial. Thanks for looking out for me.

Mike I assume you mean IWC not IHC. I do not know. I know the Swiss version is a high end movement but that is all I know about it.