I sure wouldn't blame you, Mike. I've never seen one like it before. You're right, it would indeed be a 'keeper'. High regards. Mark

IHC Member 163

Hello everyone,

Mike Harrold published a BULLETIN article on the DeLong escapement within the last couple of years that contains a wealth of technical and historical information. It doesn't catalog all the watches that have been made with it - that's not Mike Harrold's bag - but if you want to understand the motivations behind the invention, it's a great resource. Cheers.

Clint Geller

Thanks Mr. Geller,
Will you be at the #37 Mart on the 3rd at the Radisson Greentree?

Mike Nardick

I enlarged the photo and did some comparisons with a regular 992b and the DeLong drawing. Compare for yourselves:

1. The movement has banking pins. Did the Delong have banking pins?

2. The entry pallet appears identical to a typical 992B (lower left insert)

3. The pallet is squared versus the rounded Delong pallet. Note the jewel I inserted into the photo.

The DeLonger I looked at the photo, the Delonger I believe it's just a typical 992B. If it is a typical 992B, we could always make it run backwards and get at least a grand out of it!

John D. Duvall
IHC Happy Camper 192
Chapter 185 Watch Repair Moderator

Thanks John,

I have been seeing that pallet stone all the time and didnt think it was any different either. Hopefully someone will get a hold of "the" watch and photograph it.

Aaron

hello everyone,
the easiest way to identify a "delong" is to look at the escape wheel not the balance. you can see this without a loupe or taking the watch apart. the escape wheel teeth are straight not "hooked" on the end. i seriously doubt that this watch is a delong. all of my information states that delong did almost all of his work in the 1920's, far earlier than any "b" movement, and i doubt that the "b" movement could have been modified to accept the delong escapement as a retrofit. also to my limited knowledge none of the delong movements were marked delong. i do have reason to believe that the movements that were actually assembled by delong ( not retrofitted) were marked on the under side of the plates.
regards
fred

escapement pictures

plate markings

Thanks All for the info, But I know what I seen in my hands on Monday.

It's my ears that dont work, NOT my EYES!

Fred,

Good pictures of the DeLong mod. Unfortunetly all I had to go by was the picture Mike posted of the 992B. We weren't looking at or interested in the balance wheel at all.

The problem is that 992B's have such a large pallet bridge, it's hard to see anything under or around it. I was looking hard for the escape wheel teeth but just couldn't make any out. So I had to go with what I could see in the picture.

We were aware from the earlier DeLong sketches of what to look for. The only problem is that the picture lacked detail in that area.

About the only thing you can make out in Mike's picture is the entry pallet, pallet lever and banking pins. The critical areas were either shaded or blocked by balance screws. I should have stretched my arrow a little further on the insert. I was pointing to the entry pallet on that movement as well, not the balance. I labeled and pointed to the balance screw only to indicate what it was in the picture and not to be confused with some other component.

Guess we will know for sure after the 3rd. Dang it, I need to keep my nose out of Hamiltons and keep it buried in Elgin's!

John D. Duvall
IHC Happy Camper 192
Chapter 185 Watch Repair Moderator

John, Your help is ALLWAYS Welcome on ANY watch, I thank You.

Mike Nardick

Hi Mike,

No, sorry. I'm on vacation til 8/4. I will look for you there in the future, however. And by the way, please call me Clint. "Mr. Geller" is much too formal. Cheers.

Clint Geller

I've been collecting serial numbers of known Ball, Illinois and Hamilton watches fitted with DeLong escapements and would appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to add to my list.

Rhett

In a side by side comparison of the standard escapement and the DeLong escapement were there any advantage in the DeLong escapement over the standard escapement? More rugged, more accurate time keeping, or just different? Thanks

many of the technological differences were discussed in Harrold's article in THE BULLETIN

One point was the train took less power to operate.

Above in this post i think are links to other discussions and to tom mcIntyre's site.

Terry's explanation is my understanding as well. Some of DeLong's experiments appear to have been in the early twenties at Illinois Watch Company. Any that I've been fortunate to see appear to have been related to the hundred or so 21-Jewel 16-size A. Lincolns they put together.

Evidently there were a few Ball-Hamilton ORRS Watches equipped with the DeLong escapement. This and the possibility that as many as a hundred other Hamiltons were so-equipped is mentioned in the highly technical treatment by Michael C. Harrold titled "DeLong, Garbe, and Round Pallet Watch Escapements" in the Bulletin Number 311 dated December of 1997.

One of those Ball-Hamiltons is examined closely in a far more easily digested article "23-Jewel Ball-Hamilton Watch with DeLong Escapement" which appears in the Bulletin Number 332 dated June of 2001. I was able to understand that one and the fact it was a follow-up helped as it reviewed the prior information in simple terms. If anyone would like a copy contact nawcc-ihc@adelphia.net and we'd be delighted to send it along to you at no charge.

The allegation of a particular DeLong Equipped 992B which began this thread turned out to be without any foundation. Every legitimate watch with a DeLong Escapement we can find any reference to appears to have been produced about two decades or so before the first 992B Hamiltons. It also would seem odd that anyone would consider such a complicated thing after the advent of 60-hour mainsprings and precision watches being so easily mass-produced at low cost.

So were there any DeLong Escapement Equipped 992B Hamiltons? Could such a thing actually exist?

I recall the last line of dialogue in my favorite movie, "The Maltese Falcon" when Bogie's character, Sam Spade describes the illusive gem-encrusted bird they'd been seeking as...

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

Lindell

wayne,
If i remember correctly from the articles i've read concerning the delong escapement the premise or promise, depending on whos telling the story, was that the escapement design produced less friction, thus requiring a lighter mainspring to make the watch run correctly. The advantage of a lighter mainspring, or mainspring tension if you will, would be less wear and tear on the entire gear train over time. I'm not sure, but I don't think there was ever a claim of improved accuracy.
regards
fred

sorry,
i didnt see that the post had a page two and that terry and lindell had already answered your questions.
regards
fred