I have often wondered why the railroads stopped accepting 18 size watches for service. The18 size watches were only a fraction larger than the 16 size watches--and then when Illinois developed the 60 hour main springs they accepted them although they were 17 size. Can anyone explain this thinking?

Hi Steve, That made little sense to ban 18S railroad watches, especially since at the time the change was made, there were thousands of 18 sizes still in use.Imagine how aggravating it must have been to railroad men to tell them that they had to buy another new watch, when RR watches were a huge investment at that time!Some of the finest RR watches ever made were 18 size, and to have to park them just because of size seems pretty stupid.I also have heard that a lot of watchmakers didn't like working on full-plate 18 sizes, maybe that had something to do with it. I never understood how Illinois got away with the 17S Sangamo Sp'l., when technically it was not a standard 16S.I don't even understand why they didn't just make them standard-size anyway.Anyway the size change must have been a "bailout" for the watch industry!Just my opinion, I'm sure some of the more expert members would have a better answer, though.....Ted.

I agree, Ted. In their time a mass changeover from 18s to 16s, and in our time think of the forced transition from analog television to digital.

Weren't 18 size watches that were in service grandfathered in? Also, I've read that the switch was driven almost exclusively by Webb C. Ball, but I don't remember where I read it so I may be wrong...

I agree with Chris, the prohibition of 18 size watches was instituted only for new watches entering time service after a certain date. The existing inventory of 18 size watches in time service were "grandfathered in" for those that already had them.

I believe 18 size movements were being phased out by 1920 in favor of newer technology and better manufacturing and ease of service of 16 size movements. Older 18 size watches were kept in service as long as they preformed to standard. I have a 1946 Union Pacific time service bulletin that prohibits any 992b from service below a certain (1945) serial number. New watches had to be really new for some railroads. Also the problem with the Sangamo Special was not its size, but the hinged case. I know for a fact that the Great Northern Railway disallowed a hinged case. Thus they became screw bezel and back and eventually dropped under Hamilton. Anyway some 18 size watches soldiered on along with steam locomotives to the 1950s.

I know my great grandfather carried his 18s pre 1920 Elgin on the Norfolk and Western until the day he retired from service in 1957 or so. It was the only railroad watch he ever carried on the road too.

Regards! Michaelson

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It was the only railroad watch he ever carried on the road too.

It's interesting. My great grandfather carried a Hamilton 992L for his entire career as well, from 1910 until about 1955. He was a conductor, so he probably could have afforded to upgrade at some point, but chose instead to just continue servicing the 992L. He did recase it when the original wore out. I wonder how common it was for railroad men to hang on to a single watch for their entire careers?

That I can't say, but considering the cost of the item vs. what they were earning, they really couldn't AFFORD to change models if they didn't have to. It was just a required tool to many of them.

Regards! Mark

This has been a fascinating discussion. Thanks, everyone!

Steve G.

My Godfather was among the last U.P. steam engineers and he carried his 992 on a daily basis. I recall him telling me that in the depression some railroaders would sell the movement and use a less expensive 17j movement with a RRG dial and case. Maybe he meant they sold the gold case but the older engineers didn't go much for gold cased work watches. What if you got caught with a lesser movement? What was the penalty?

Hey Deacon, it all depends on what would be a "lesser watch" like my "Caboose Watch, I usually wear on April 1!

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What if you got caught with a lesser movement? What was the penalty?

Well, considering the fact that the watches were regularly inspected, I don't see how a person could hide the fact that they had the wrong movement.

Hi Lindell, that's a really interesting story.Would you mind sometime posting pictures of your Dad's South Bend? Always enjoy seeing 18s South Bends, I think they were some of the best looking full-plate movements ever made!Thanks!, Ted.

This has been another great IHC education for me.I always thought that 18sizes were only allowed to be kept in service until the employee could get a new 16S. You learn something new every day on here!....Ted.

It looks brand-new, Lindell. The "train-track" pattern through the middle of the movement is especially cool .

The fact that it was your great-grandfather's gives it even more meaning.

Say Eric,
Are you by chance RR or ex RR
I would be willing to wager the farm that only a RR man would recognize that straight line "ribbon~rail" pattern going thru the middle
Truth now Lindell, you just now noticed that didn't ya [ you can tell us, its OK ]

regards,
bb

Fantastic! What does the 3/3 or 313 in the banner mean?

It's a grade 313. There's a thread about the grade in the South Bend section.
https://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/f...4101939/m/6421057022

I'm not up to speed on the South Bend grades. Thanks for the link!

Lindell, thanks for the picture.That is a really beautiful South Bend!Looks like the day it was new.I also was also a Studebaker "nut".I had several Larks, a bulletnose 4-door, for many years, my '49 1/2 ton pickup took me back and forth to work.Also had a '46 M5 pickup, and a '47M16 1-1/2 ton rack truck.One of my Larks, I put a Stude 289 4bbl. in to replace the 6 cyl, it was pretty fast!Thanks again!....Ted.