I just bought an American Waltham Pocket Watch. It is Riverside 16s 15j 1889 pat'd Dec 7, 86. It 3/4 plate inscript A.W.W.Co. Riverside. It has a very fancy face w/ numbers 1-12 almost script with blue dots at the top of each number, with gold dots between each blue dot and has gold leaves between each number. it has AMERICAN in block letters and under that Waltham in script, and gold leaves on both sides of the name.
Can anyone tell me anything about this model? I can't find anything specific on the "Net".

Thanks,

Steve

Steve - can you tell us the serial number on the movement? It sounds like it might be an 1888 model.

The Serial Number is #4106006

OK - that is probably an 1888 model Riverside that was finished around 1890. (The top plate should be split between the train bridge and barrel bridge). At this time the 15j Riverside grade was around the middle of the product line.

Jerry,
Thank you for the information.

Regards,

Steve

Jerry;
I am fascinated by your reply. What did you use to determine that this watch is mid range? While I am at it, I should ask if there is a produce range guide that indicates when certain models were introduced into production and others removed from production? Thanks.

Mark - I based my statement on an 1898 catalog page (S.F. Meyers) that was reproduced by Ehrhardt that showed 7 grades, with the Riverside in the middle. In digging a little more I found an 1896 catalog with a lot more movements, many in the lower grades. The 1888-model movements shown, in order of decreasing grade, are:

American Watch Co. - 19j $100
Am'n Watch Co. - 16j $ 60
Riverside (nickel) - 17j $ 30
Riverside (nickel) - 15j $ 24
Riverside (gilt) - 17j $ 24
Riverside (gilt) - 15j $ 19
Royal (nickel) - 17j $ 20
Royal (nickel) - 15j $ 16
Royal (gilt) - 15j $ 15
No.28 (nickel) - 15j $ 13
No.24 (nickel) - 15j $ 13
No.24 (nickel) - 11j $ 11
No.22 (gilt) - 11j $ 10
No.20 (gilt) - 7j $ 8

Although there are more cheap grades below it, the Riverside prices are well below the middle of their price spread. The 1896 list also lacks the Riverside Maximus, which was also a higher grade, but I guess in 1896 it was a little above mid-range.

As far as Mark's second question - like most companies Waltham was always modifying their product line, with variants within the grades introduced at different times. The only way to get a handle on the timing might be to look at various sales catalogs (many reproduced by Ehrhardt). However, different wholesalers may have offered different parts of the product line, and some limited products may have only been available through certain favored distributors. Other discontinued products may have been discounted and appear in bargain jobbers lists after others were no longer carrying them.

grat information.

thanks,

Steve

Jerry;
Thanks for the information. Product line definition appears to be alot like trying to grab an eel and attempting to establish an accurate representation of a product line looks like a sure-fire way to go crazy!

The catalogue listing that you gave is fascinating. I noticed that the Am'n Watch Co. movement (16j) is more 'pricey' than the following 17j Riverside. I realize that the finish work on a basic grade consists of more than jewel count, but which other finishing details could account for such a price gap is baffling. Do you have any thoughts as to what they were?

Mark,
I am not familiar with the specs on these movements, but one of the biggest contributors to cost was adjusting. Adjusting to positions was far more expensive than just adjusting to temperature. Each additional adjustment required more highly skilled labor to achieve, adding to costs regardless of jewel count. Also, some of the more highly adjusted movements had to meet tighter timekeeping tolerances, which again required more skilled labor to meet.

Ed;
Thanks!! That is exactly the kind of information I was after. The only way in which one could answer the specific question would be to have the two movements side-by-side on a work bench. Although I did not ask the question well, you appear to have read my mind and provided me with some general information regarding the finishing details. Again, thanks.