Hello; New to this posting thing so please bear with me. I recently acquired a watch that I am unsure about ie. is it a student watch or project or just something created to vent ones artistic flair. I am pretty sure it is based on a 14 size Waltham Model 1874-1884. As you will see by the pics (hopefully) it has been skelatonized to show the train.Some of the features are:
A) screw down raised gold jwl settings.
B)gold train.
C)Waltham regulator.
D)underside of top plate has been damaskeened to match the bottom plate.
The Waltham dial has some crazing around the dial feet and it has a broken balance staff. I would also like to service it and replace the mainspring.
It appears to be very well executed and I am eager to learn more about it before I disassemble it. Any help or ideas would be appreciated. I have not looked in my meager parts dept. but suspect I will be sourcing a balance staff and Mainspring also. Thanks

another pic

another picture

and another

I think you have a watch that a Waltham employe made special for him self.

I think you have $150.00 cash in your pocket if you send it to Illinois.

I love it and agree with Eugene Waltham looks like model 1888 with some modifications to it

That's the remnant of a 14-size Model 84.

The 16-1/2 size Model 88 is very different:

You are right again Eric I just look at my Bond Street Waltham I should have done that before
I post.
And that gives me an idea to do same to my Bond
tomorrow I will star skelotonizing my Waltham size 14 hehe.
Eugene still looking for one with case for $150?
JK

The top plate screw pattern and the buried motor barrel with (obviously) under-dial winding parts has the "flavor" of starting out from an 1874 parts set.

The dial is hardly correct, meaning (either) it may have been finished much later than the 1870's or the dial is sticky'd on.

The hub for the motor barrel arbor is unusual to any other Waltham I have seen and the matching damaskeening that is engraved to the backside of the dial plate tells me it is a "special".

Thank you all for your responses. Eugene thank you for your interest and offer but I think I will keep it for now. I would like to see it running and cleaned up. I tend to agree with you that it probably was an employee with a lot of extra time. I had wondered if it was a Horology student that did it for a project but decided that altering someones work would not be a favorable project for a student.
David as soon as I can find some time I will pull the dial and barrel and see what is up with that. I will post some more pics as I progress with it. Will not be soon!!
Could anyone suggest a source for a staff and mainspring. I do not have such in my meager supply. Thanks for your help

case for size 14 will not be easy to find.
yes post some picture once you get to it.

John,

I'd love to have a shot at running the serial numbers off the front of the pillar plate and the partials under the balance cock and if available under the arm on the balance wheel and spring barrel lid.

Even though the numbers under the cock and arm may be partials... we might be able to guess the front number or two to isolate the make and model.

I might have your staff. The only way to know for sure is detailed pictures and measurements.

Total length and diameters at every step or collar with a good side view.

R/Paul

Hi Peter. Neglected to mention it came with nice Crescent Watch case 20 yr gold filled. Hinged case in pretty respectable condition.
Paul: thank you for your comments. I will try to be diligent when removing parts and photograph everything. I was going to put this off for awhile but think I will have to get at it sooner than anticipated. Will try to keep you posted as I go along.

Couple of Pics of case!

Another

and another

Last one!

I took the mov. apart this PM and have several pics to share with you. I found only numbers on the underside of the balance wheel That no. is 667 221. It is a little hard to see but I think that is correct. As you will see in the pics. there are no other nos anywhere!! I am not sure what that means but would speculate the this watch was created by someone who had access to parts prior to the finished product being assembled ie raw parts if you will. I guess that would lend more evidence to the theory that a Waltham employee may have made this watch.
There had been a question about the dial and if it would be original to this watch. The dial has 3 feet all in the correct position and no evidence to suggest it has been altered so I guess I would think it is original to this watch.
I was pleased by the condition and the jewells look good with only one having a slight line but I dont think it will affect the running. One thing I noticed was how tight the last fellow had tightened all the screws. I was afraid some would break. No wonder some of the enamel over the dial feet has cracked!!
I will load up a few pics. Any questions I will try to answer, and if someone wants other pics I am happy to oblige. Some of the pics are not as good as I would like but that is another area where I can grow!

No. 2 back of dial and top plate

No. 3 balance out

No. 4 underside of balance bridge-no numbers

No. 5 Balance. Tried to show nos. but could not get them

No.6 Bottom plate removed before I removed the train. All wheels are gold. I dont understand what is meant by that ie flashed gold .plated gold etc but they sure are pretty, even the escape wheel.

No. 7 wheels and lever bridge

No. 8 Barrel. has same design as plates but in gilt

No. 9 Barrel lid- no numbers

No. 10. underside of train bridge

No. 11 top of train bridge. Thats all for now. if you would like anything else just hollar.
Paul I may need your help with that staff. when I can I will get some measurements of it and let you know.
Anybody with some advice or words of wisdom about this little project I would be interested. Thank you

I also come up with a Bond St. or model '95...

I understand the set lever and return spring, minute and hour wheel, winding wheel...

Where is the click?

If the wind and click wheels are not topside? This thing is wound through the opening in the pillar plate... I'm not making the mental connection.

This is certainly a nice watch. one train of thought is that several years ago there was an article in the bulletin about a jeweler that was cutting watch plates down to expose the wheels. Could this possibly be one of those. By all means I am not an expert on this kinda stuff I just wanted to throw that out for thought.

Hi Paul: Sorry I did not include of the underside of the top plate because that is where the click is. Please see picture. You have a good eye Paul!
Hi Wayne. Thank you for your input. I had not considered this being done by a jeweler but I guess anything is possible. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a Waltham employee because of their access to parts and equipment. I cant imagine many people having equipment to do the damaskeening etc. this watch has had.
I have not seen the bulletin you mentioned but would like to read it. If anyone knows when and where please let me know.

One more

And, Eric Unselt wins the prize for answering the question at a glance.

I'm convinced it is a model 84... a dead match for the movement silhouettes at the end of the Waltham section... right down to the ferrel for the barrel, no wheels above the barrel plate...

The lack of serial numbers still intrigues me.

If I put a 7 in front of the balance serial number 667221... it comes up as an 1896 Bond St. model 1895.

Most likely a replacement from a donor watch somewhere in it's lifetime... The '95 looks close enough to be able to share a balance wheel with the '84... but the bridges are vastly different.