Thoughts on pocket watch database website vs. “the book” for determining values

February 22, 2020, 12:39

Steve Boyles

Hello IHC 185! Brand spanking new to the group, and fairly new to using forums on in general, so forgive me if this topic has been discussed previously. I did use the search feature and found plenty of references to pocket watch database website, but no discussions on the positives vs. negatives of it vs. the pricing book often referenced by collectors. I’ve been collecting for some time, and have always used the database to research potential purchases, including establishing a value I’m willing to pay. So, back to the topic, hopefully some of you regulars here can shed light on why you use “the book” vs. using (what seems to me much more user friendly) Pocket watch database website. Thanks in advance!

February 22, 2020, 13:55

Kevin Hoffman

Hi Steve , I use the database for information mainly, if I want to figure a value I look at past auctions on e bay and Jones/Horan auction information to find out what an item sells for .

February 22, 2020, 18:10

Rick Hufnagel

I agree with Kevin

The best way I've found for pricing is to check past auctions on eBay, sold listings for auction houses, and really just follow the market and see what things are going for. Don't look for the price people are selling things for, look for what things have sold for. Someone can list a common, nickel cased 7 jewel Elgin for $3000, doesn't mean they're going to get it.

It's been my experience that educating yourself as best as possible on a watch or company you enjoy will be your best asset. If you do that, the price guide will become a secondary resource very quickly. It's a very general guide.

I haven't used the PWDB resource for pricing, so cannot comment on it.

Condition plays the biggest part of pricing, and it takes an eye to tell when something is worth big bucks or if it's munged together from parts. There's no substitute for knowing if what your looking at is original, correct, and in good shape.

Good luck! What kind of watches do you enjoy collecting?!?!

February 23, 2020, 09:11

Nathan Moore

The estimated values displayed on the Pocket Watch Database are statistically derived from actual online sales. As a result, these values remain current throughout the year as final prices fluctuate. However, since each watch has unique characteristics in regard to condition and conductibility, the values should only be viewed as a general guide and will generally be more accurate when evaluating a very common grade as opposed to an uncommon grade.

Additionally, if the watch features any rare or more collectible characteristics like a rare dial or uncommon variant, those values can essentially be ignored completely. As Kevin and Rick mentioned, neither the Pocket Watch Database nor any book should be a replacement for conducting your own research. Searching through ended listings on a variety of auction sites to find similar watches sold is critical when attempting to determine value.

At the end of the day, the actual value will be determined by the market when that individual watch is sold.

February 23, 2020, 14:13

Lindell V. Riddle

There is a basic problem in relying on any on-line data as there are no two watches alike. Like used cars they have been subjected to entirely different conditions and situations. No "data-base" even one showing recent sales can identify all the important characteristics of a specific often 100-plus-year-old watch. When following links to the data-base in question I have often laughed out loud at how "wide-of-the-mark" their information is. A few minutes ago, while reading this topic I went there, typed in a movement number of a watch I have owned over twenty years and it unfortunately took me to an array of highly confusing mis-information. After a few minutes I closed-out of it. Certainly the mis-information is unintentional on their part but fact remains it is confusing mis-information none-the less.

The watch guide "Complete Guide to Watches" is still the most basic and reliable reference work. Cooksey Shugart established it beginning in 1980 and the basic information compiled therein is the most basic education available. Read it cover-to cover, put in reference tabs to what you expect to use frequently, I have done this for over twenty-five years and I know what works. Along with the knowledge-base here on IHC using our "Find-Or-Search" feature and your ability to ask questions of an excellent cross-section of this hobby you will rarely go wrong. Remember... "THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS THE ONE YOU DID NOT ASK" and "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER" are old sayings because they are the simple truth.

When you need to know more about a specific watch post clear images and we will help dissect it with you. If you are looking at an "on-line-item for-sale or bids" start a topic in our "Avoiding the Pitfalls of On-Line Trading" which is out of public view allowing us to "take the gloves off" and get deep into the item and at times even additional information that should not be shared in a public forum.

I have a vast library of reference works on the watch and case companies containing information that could never be distilled into a generic "on-line database" no matter how well-intentioned the developers might be. Over the years my collection has become pretty well complete by learning who I could trust, often learning the hard way, by experience and keeping these points in mind...

As stated above in this topic... BUY CONDITION, buy the best example you can find and afford, in any collectible item, condition is the most important factor. When you pay a little more you usually get a whole lot more and save yourself the "buyers-remorse" that comes from an ill-informed purchase. Establish yourself with a reliable watch repair professional, we have some of the best right here, make a friend in the hobby, someone to discuss things with on the phone, one-on-one and as stated above use the IHC features and rely on the help from our members.

Whenever I try to help someone new to this wonderful hobby I always remind myself that years ago I asked that very same question and how I struggled to find an answer.

Much of what has been pointed out in this topic is very good advice.

Keep posting and hanks a million everyone,

Lindell

February 23, 2020, 19:24

Tom Dunn

This is some very good information here!

I would add when looking at and considering a watch purchase try to find at least TWO or more of recent similiar sold watches to help get a handle on how much to pay. As experienced as we all are here on watches what is and is not correct and acceptable etc etc I must admit NO one really knows this current market pricing. It is crazy. If it's a one of a kind that you really want to own you'll have to make that decision for yourself as to price.

Like the Shugart Book, don't use all recent sales as a Bible. They will get you close and you must judge the watch in question as to condition compared to the sale watches. They CAN vary several hundred dollars depending on case dial movement condition variants etc But if you see 3 or 4 watches like the one you're looking at selling in the 500-600 range the one you're looking at for 1000 may be a bit pricey. Conversely you cannot expect to buy same watch for 300. As I have told many a prospective customer "I cannot sell you a $500 watch for $200".

If the value is worth it to you to own it, then by all means go for it after making sure it's what it's supposed to be. Prized watches in excellent condition generally will hold their value. YOUR job will be determining what that value IS. And no one can tell you. Only documented recent sales of similiar watches tell the real tale. What I do is add or subtract depending on condition to arrive at the best mean time valuation. And my watches will run a little higher than someone just selling one or two off. My 25 years experience and me standing behind every watch I sell IS worth something. Good Luck to all!