Illinois Tivoli case

January 31, 2011, 11:21

Jim Bielefeldt

I have a illinois watch in a illinois tivioli case. It isnt marked gold filled or even base metal. In fact there is no indication what it is made of. It looks like the other white gold filled cases I have. Short of having it tested is there a way to find out what its made of? It has a hinged back and here is a picture of the back.

January 31, 2011, 12:40

Jerry King

Jim, does the case have a dust cover and if so can you give us a pic of the inside of the rear cover and inside of the dust cover...?

Normally the Tivoli cases are gold filled but a photo would help....

Thanks,

Jerry

January 31, 2011, 13:23

Jim Bielefeldt

Thanks Jerry.
Its harder to get than it looks, but here is the best picture that I was able to get. As you can see there is no description or mark. Just the words
Illinois
Watch case co
Elgin
Tivoli
8206805

January 31, 2011, 13:44

Tom Brown

The word Tivoli was filed for trademarked by the Illinois Watch Case Co., Elgin Il. on 01/18/1926 & in use since 02/16/1922 according to US Horological Index.

In Trade-Marks by Ehrhardt it is also shown but no mention to content. I would venture a guess that it is a gold filled case based on other markings IWCCo. used on their cases. But that is just my opinion.

I also wonder if the name is based on the city in New York state?

Tom

January 31, 2011, 13:49

Tom Brown

After I posted the above I got to thinking that I recalled having a similar case, mine is marked Illinois Watch Case Co. ELGIN TIVOLI Gold Filled 14K Guaranteed.

January 31, 2011, 15:48

Lindell V. Riddle

Jim,

I agree with Jerry King, that is a Gold-Filled case, although I do not specifically recall the number of years it would have been guaranteed, there is a "rule-of thumb" on watch cases as follows... Almost invariably when you find the case-makers name followed by a model name it is indeed a Gold-Filled case. You will see some of the Gold-Filled case names in the Complete Guide to Watches and as Tom Brown pointed out it also appears in a more extensive listing of Illinois Watch Case Company case names including "Tivoli" on page 61 of the long out-of-print Ehrhardt Trade-Mark Book .

As was posted by above Tom Brown the Trade-Mark "tivoli" was registered to the Illinois Watch Case Company of Elgin, Illinois. It is important for all of us to remember that particular company was not in any way associated with either the Illinois Watch Company of Springfield, Illinois or the Elgin Watch Company of Elgin, Illinois. Many collectors as well as numerous re-sellers tend to put either Elgin or Illinois watches in Illinois Watch Case Company of Elgin, Illinois cases for obvious reasons, but fact is these cases were predominately sold to the jewelry trade and used as either original or replacement cases. In other words nearly any make of watch, including Illinois could have originally come in your case. Of course these cases were also sold to watch companies and were used as original equipment by them, particularly on 12-size and some 16-size watches as well.

One more point, around 1923 the US Government stepped in and mandated that gold-content be specifically stated on all jewelry and watch cases. That would tend to tell us your "Tivoli" case would have been manufactured before that edict came into effect, but that only tells us when it was made, the case could have remained in a jewelers or the watch manufacturers inventory for some time before a watch movement was placed in it. All too often things in our hobby are imprecise.

Hope this is at least of some help to you and others,

Lindell

January 31, 2011, 16:04

Jerry King

Thanks Lin for that excellent explanation and as you have done many times added the reasoning behind many of the questions that we have....

Jim, Tom gave you very good information as he does so many times regarding the patent information for Illinois Watch Case Co. as it relates to the Tivoli trademark....

I, too, have a Tivoli case very similar to yours and they are very nice cases....Hard to find, anymore....

I hope this has answered your question satisfactorily....

Regards,

Jerry

January 31, 2011, 20:51

Jim Bielefeldt

Thanks Tom, Lin, and Jerry. I figured it was a gold filled case but wasnt sure. I thought it was a chance to ask and a good question and learn something. Which I did