Howard pocket watch 21 or 19 jewels??

July 17, 2006, 16:16

John Johnston

Hi, I have seen this a couple of times before and wanted to ask the experts. If you look at this Howard watch movement it says 21 jewels and has the arrow with the star in the middle, but it also has a roman 5 or v under the movement arrow and according to Shugarts this is to indicate that there are only 19 jewels and not 21. Is this movement in fact 19 or 21 jewels??? Thank you in advance for all of your help and info.

John

July 18, 2006, 11:49

Samie L. Smith

John do you have a picture a little closer up of the movement..I would say that 19 jewel would be right if there is a v under the star...looks like a nice watch

July 18, 2006, 12:28

John Johnston

Samie,

I can't seem to inlarge the photo but I can see it larger and yes it does have the V under the arrow. This watch is on Ebay and listed as a 21 jewel I was just wondering if I should inform the seller of their error? I appreciate your input Sam.

John

July 18, 2006, 15:16

Lindell V. Riddle

An eBay number or a link would have made this a bit easier.

However, from the description provided and what little I could see in the thumbnail image my bet is that one will turn out to be a legitimate 21-Jewel movement. The image below is of a 21-Jewel 10-size Howard from my collection. As you can see, the arrow with star in the center has the "V" underneath along with very clear "21 J." markings.

According to information on page 266 of the "Complete Guide to Watches" 2006 Edition these watches have more than one number 21 going for them. They feature 1921 Patents and they were produced beginning in that year. Serial numbers begin at 1,001 and below you'll see details of number 4683 from my collection.

Like others of the later Howards these are great watches available at what many of us feel are bargain prices. The mainstream of watch collecting has not yet realized what fine watches these are, so some of us collect them along with South-Bends and Hampdens. One day we'll have a big smile.

Ten-Size 21-Jewel Howard number 4683 in gold case...

July 18, 2006, 16:17

Samie L. Smith

john if it,s like the one lindell pictured then 21 jewel why the v who knows ,still a nice watch and as Lindell said overlooked by most buyers..

July 18, 2006, 16:17

Ed Ueberall

Lindell,
I'm wondering where the 20th & 21st jewels are located on your 10s Howard? There does not seem to be a cap jewel over the pallet arbor. Does the movement have jewelled banking pins?

July 18, 2006, 16:41

Samie L. Smith

2 on the center wheel
2 on the 3rd wheel
2 on the 4th wheel
4 on the escape wheel 2hole and 2 cap jewels
2 pallet stones
2 on the pallet fork arbors
1 roller jewel
4 on the balance 2hole and 2 cap jewels

my thought was ruby banking pins.
i can see 19 for sure

July 18, 2006, 16:47

Samie L. Smith

here is a 17 jewel you can see it has no cap jewel on the escape wheel..

July 19, 2006, 19:49

Tom McIntyre

These watches have jeweled banking similar to the 23J 16 size Keystone Howards. I will try to post a picture later. On the 10 size watches the banking pins are set into the corners of the well and cannot be adjusted. The fork is shaved to alter the banking and it has knobs to facilitate this.