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Bunn Special 163, 163-E and 163-A "THE SEVEN STARS" Database "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
Here is another to add to the database.
White gold filled Model 29 case with Type I movement serial number 5334489 with the 23 J variant dial. Great minty watch.
Randy Chapin
 
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
Thanks Randy, I just added it to the Type I serial number list.


Best Regards,

Ed
 
posted
I just came across the serial number of my Type 1 Bunn Special 163 that was confiscated by the Mexican Customs at the Falcon Lake Border crossing along with about $10,000 worth of other watches. Please enter the serial number 5390755 to your listings. Didn't get any back. No help from our Government. Be very careful if you decide to take any watches into Mexico. It is some small comfort that it wasn't a Type II though...
 
posted
Gentlemen,

I request your advice. I own a Bunn Special 163A Type 2 Elinvar that was owned by F.E. Haines who worked on the McCook Division of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad otherwise known as the High Plains Route in 1931. Those details are engraved inside the back cover of the watch. I am interested in finding any information anyone might know about F.E. Haines and I would also like your advice on selling this mint historical timepiece that has been back in our family for many years. We are opening an aviation summer camp for kids to teach them to fly and we are selling everything for that end. Thanks for your time. Regards, Gary Bunn, Vector Warbirds USA
 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
F.E. Haines was more than likely Fred E. Haines who was born about March 1879 in Illinois.

In 1900 he was living with his mother Charlotte Haines & sister Alice in Aurora Ward 2, Kane, Illinois. He was listed as a brakeman

In 1910 he is living in Savanna Ward 3, Carroll, Illinois. He is now married to Mary & they have a son Joseph W. born about 1907. Fred is listed as a conductor railroad.

In 1920 he is living in Ottumwa Ward 2, Wapello, Iowa. He is still married to Mary, they have the son Joseph but now also daughter Mary born about 1911, son Fred born about 1915. Fred is listed as Superintendent Railroad.

In 1930 they are living in McCook, Red Willow, Nebraska. It shows everyone listed in 1920 is still living in the house. Fred is listed as Superintendent Steam Railroad.

Doing a Google search it appears the McCook Division of the railroad had the superintendent stationed at McCook Ne.

Tom
 
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
WoW Eek This is an extremely important watch if you have any documentation on Mr. Haines actually owning this watch at one time, that would put it thru the roof !!

Don't take any offers!! I am not a buyer for your watch, but if you need any help in marketing strategies, feel free to contact me. Perhaps I can give you some needed help along the way.

watchbbgo1@dishmail.net

regards,
bb
 
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

By the way, the watch in question is correctly a 163A "Type II B" with movement numbered 5448572 as shown in the accompanying image. It has also been added appropriately to our Seven Stars Database. By the way, the "B" in "Type II B" refers to "Bridge" and the fact that "Elinvar" appears on the Train Bridge, above the "Bunn Special" marking. We will do what we can to help Gary Bunn get a good price for this watch as the proceeds will help fund a worthwhile cause.


Here is Type II B number 5448572 in detail...


 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Mr. Bunn

I assume you read or were given the information I posted about the previous owner. If possible it would be nice to see the engraved markings in a photo.

I would suggest Ebay as the place to sell your watch, it will be seen by the most people & if listed correctly will probably sell for the most there.

That is my two cents worth, which in this day is worth nothing.

Tom
 
posted
Dear Mr. Brown,

Thank you so much for this information! Your two cents have made my month! I will try again to post the back cover with the engraving for F.E. Haines. I tried to find info on him but could not, you sir are quite the researcher! Its exciting to know about the man who at one time in history carried the very watch I am honored to have pass through my life. I know that just like Mr. Haines I to will pass but this Bunn Special will live on for many people to enjoy as I have, to me its a beautiful human trail, the funds from selling this watch will go directly into our aviation summer school for kids where we will teach our young from 10 to 16 to actually fly an aircraft. What that means to me is that Mr. Haines is still with us, he will live on in some child that I teach to fly! I like that! Well again thank you for taking the time to find the info about Mr. Haines that I could not. I have contacted the Haines family website to see if I can learn more about him or a picture to put with the watch. Man if only it could talk!!

Best regards to everyone of you that has helped here, it spurs me on to know my fellow Americans are behind my endeavor to give our young wings!

Gary Bunn
Prescott, AZ

 
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
Tom and other interested Members;

I will be more than happy to share and add the pictures that Gary emailed me.

 
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
Here is the dial;

 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Thanks for the photos.

Mr. Bunn, below is a newspaper article I found in the Beatrice Daily Sun October 20, 1943 Beatrice Nebraska. The article mentions F.E. Haines.

 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Found this also;

Who's Who in Nebraska, 1940

HAINES, FRED ELLIOTT: Railroad General Superintendent; b Amboy, Ill Mar 14, 1879; s of Phillip Haines-Charlotte Vaughan; ed Mendota Ill HS 1897; m Mary Dugan June 25, 1902 Fulton Ill; s Joseph W, Feed E Jr; d Mary; 1897- with CB&Q RR, 1897-1908 brakeman, 1908-12 conductor, 1912-14 asst trainmaster at Aurora Ill, 1914-16 trainmaster at Aurora Ill, 1916-17 asst sup at Burlington Ia, 1917 asst supt Beardstown Ill, 1919 & 1920-25 asst supt at Ottumwa Ia; 1919-20 supt, LaCrosse Wis, 1925-27 supt Creston Ia, 1927-31 supt McCook, 1931-35 supt Creston Ia, 1935-39 supt at Hannibal Mo, 1939- gen supt, Lincoln, over Lincoln, Omaha & Wymore; during World War 1st lt, Russian RR service corps, in Russia 26 mos, mustered out May 15, 1919; during Sp-Amer War, priv in 6th Ill in Cuba & Puerto Rico, Apr-Nov 1898; Amer Assn of RR Supts; C of C, mbr bd of dirs, Hannibal Mo; pres Hannibal Mo Depot Co; pres Keokuk Ia Union Depot Co; Uni Club; AF&AM; York Rite; Shrine; Bapt Ch; hobby, golf; off CB&Q RR Depot; res 4047 Sheridan, Lincoln.
 
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator

Picture of Tom Brown
posted
Mr. Bunn

You might check for newspapers that were in business in McCook Ne. in 1931 & contact them to see if they have any articles about Fred Haines. My guess would be was that he was presented the watch in McCook when he was being transferred to back to Creston Ia. So there might have been an article about the presentation.

I searched the on-line papers I have access to but not everyone is on-line.

Tom
 
posted
Inherited from my father:

163A Elinvar Type II P - #5563035 (206 GF Case)
163A Elinvar Type IIB - #5456881 (108 GF Case)
163 Elinvar Type IIE - #5421808 Star Case with pyramid bow (In Box)
163 Type I - #5390260 (206 2-tone Case)
 
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted
Sound like nice watches Don, we added them to the database a few minutes ago. Wink If you have any Sangamo Specials we keep data on those in this same forum and compile information on several other make watches as well. Send descriptions via eMail to ihc185@roadrunner.com for inclusion.

Please accept our invitation to Join and Support the Internet Horology Club 185™ to participate more fully in all we have to offer, our dues is a low $12.00 a year, the best bargain in this or any hobby.

Lindell

Wink
 
IHC Member 1016
posted
I'll add mine for insertion in the database. A Type I, SN 5334990 173 WGF Case #7088041.

 
posted
I acquired my grail this week!!!! I have dreamed of owning a 163 for many years due to price and availability I never thought it would happen, but it did. It is in mint pristine condition also!!!
Serial# 5334208
Case Keystone #206 tu-tone white and green 14k gf
Dial fully marked as all 163 Bunn's are no hairlines or chips!

I am so proud of this watch it is just the combo that i have wanted for a 163!! I just want to thank my best friend Bob McKnight for making my dream come true. If you could add my Bunn to the database I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Dan
 
posted
hi Lindell, put me down as owning SN# 5375930 model 14 type 1 163. It has a 23 jewel 60 hr dial and resides in a pattern back white 14k gold filled 173 case which is now finally keeping railroad time after a recent overhaul by my watch maker.....including a new mainspring for good measures. hope everyone is well! Joe
 
posted
Please add the following to your lists:

5563257 Type II-P Keystone #28 case
5334587 Type I Keystone #173 case
5321615 Type I-R Keystone #173 case
5321776 Type I-R Keystone #28 case

Now the proud owner of eight (8) model 163's. Still looking for a type I-E and hoping to find a Type II at a pawn shop/garage sale (LOL)!
 
posted
If this is completely off topic I appologize beforehand. I am in the process of buying a 163 #54221404 from a gentleman I have dealt with before. I have yet to see the watch, merely going by his written description thus far. He claims the watch to be a 163 Elinvar, signed "Elinvar" on the balance cock. I am more than a tad bringing my failure to know something this basic but...so be it. Can you possibly tell me something about this watch...legit?


Karl
 
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
It would be impossible to answer as to "legit" without seeing said watch. There are too many digits in your serial number to even attempt a guess. It would be impossible to give an opinion without some in-focus pictures also.

regards,
bb
 
posted
Sorry for the lack of spefecicity and lack of pictures. I realize, as well, that my question was too general to be answered with any degree of accuracy. I have unearthed some additional information which has been helpful to me.

Let me attempt another question. Where might I find a database of serial numbers for the Bunn Special models...or, Illinois watches in general? I believe I may have run across reference to one in my searches but can't seem to locate the reference again. Thnk you.


Karl
 
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Welcome Aboard Karl,

I agree with Buster, too many numbers, perhaps you may have put an extra 2 into the movement number. If the number is correctly 5421404 then what you found is likely a "Type I-Elinvar" from 1931 production. There were only about 900 of that particular variant produced. Be sure the fourth image on the preceding page and the following description both match the movement in question...

Marked "Motor Barrel" and "23 Jewels" on the barrel bridge with grade number "163" to the right, marked "Elinvar" at edge of balance bridge.

If the number is in fact 5421404 and the description matches it fits here in our 163 Type I E ("900" produced) list...

5421220
5421289
5421333
5421340
5421063
5421223
5421365
------------< 5421404
5421564

There was no definitive list in existence that properly categorized these movements until we set-up this "Bunn Special 163, 163-E and 163-A "THE SEVEN STARS" Database" with pictures and descriptions of each of the seven Grade 163 variants. Notice also that by merely using the number 5421404 and looking that up (5420001-5422000) in the "Illinois Encyclopedia" it could be a "Type I" or a "Type I Elinvar" which is why this list is so important in researching these watches.

Just for fun look at the "Type I" listings and you will see the 5421404 number could fit there as well but of course the description would not match.

If you found what you described, then you have found a worthwhile watch.

Lindell

Wink
 
posted
I was contacted by "Lin" (Lindell V. Riddle) this afternoon in regards to my somewhat clumbsy attempt to correctly identify a Bunn Special 163 in which I am interested. Lin was most helpful (and patient) in guiding me through this forum, providing me with detailed information on this line of fine watches and, giving me his personal opinion (positive) on the individual from whom I intend to purchase this (a 163 Type I E) watch. My few short words of appreciation in this post are insignificant to the width and breath of education I was provided. A sincere "Thank you" simply doesn't say it all but, thanks Lin, most appreciated!

By the way, I HAD placed another "2" in the 5421404 serial number...must have sneezed!

Karl
 
IHC Member 1704
posted
In continuing to update this list, here's some additional 163/163A movements from my collection:

163 IR, 5321275, "arrows out" marked Montgomery dial, Mdl 28 14K YGF case

163 IR, 5321602, 23-J Montgomery dial, Mdl 206 14K tu-tone case

163 IE, 5420175, 23-J, Mdl 173 14K WGF fancy back case

163 I, 5421044, 23-J, Mdl 29 10K WGF case

163 IIE, 5448239, marked dial, Mdl 108 10K YGF case

163A IIB, 5448513, 23-J dial, Mdl 173 14K tu-tone case

163A IIP, 5457567, 23-J, Mdl 206 10K tu-tone case

163A IIP, 5563374, 23-J Montgomery dial, Mdl 173 tu-tone fancy back case
 
IHC Life Member
posted
WOW Bill, 6 of the 7 Stars!

Congratulations on a wonderful collection.

I picked up a 163 Type II E a few months ago, movement #5421834 that can be added to the list.

BR, Dan
 
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Thanks Bill for the information and congratulations!

Debbie

Smile
 
IHC Life Member
Picture of Tom Weinstock
posted
Please add # 5421768, Type IIE, in Star Case with pyramid bow to the database. I just acquired this and am tidying it up. Will post pics when ready. Smile
 
IHC Vice President
Pitfalls Moderator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Edward L. Parsons, Jr.
posted
I've updated the database to include Tom's and Bill's watches. Keep it coming! Smile


Best Regards,

Ed
 
IHC Life Member
posted
Not mine, but I have in for service 5421476.

Roger
 
IHC Member 1511
posted
Please add

Bunn Special # 5456904 Type IIB Elinvar
 
Site Administrator
IHC Life Member
Picture of Phillip Sanchez
posted
Gary, now added to the database. Thank you
 
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