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Found new SN's not listed NEW WATCH LISTED HELP "Click" to Login or Register 
Picture of Sheila Gilbert
posted
What if you find a serial number to a watch that does not exist in any serial number information for that company?

What if it matches a known watch exactly, and the only problem is, that there is no indication of any being made with this lower number?

What if you find 2 of them, and their the same company, and one is an 18's and the other is a really small one? supposed to be very collectable, and has a number HIGHER than known to exist in this named watch, or even the company?

I found two watches like this, and will post it later today when I get up, until then, you tell me if this ever happens.

I did check them both and they, sure enough, are in "The Book" and are identical right down to the last screw.

So exciting!

We will either have to change the serial number information databases for this company, or add another FAKE to a long list of them.

See you soon......................


Sheila
 
Posts: 3094 | Location: La Plata, Maryland U.S.A. | Registered: May 22, 2004
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Hi Sheila,

It will be interesting to see what watch and what watch company you are referring to. Usually such things as this are misunderstandings, fakes or inaccurate listings rather than new findings. Wink But, that being said we always keep an open mind. "We learn something new every day" ...is the fascination of this hobby.

Lindell

Smile
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Sheila Gilbert
posted
Look on page 242 at the Oriental First!

Is it a Hampden? you tell me, but first look on page 242 at the Oriental in the "The Book" it's the same.
The name on the watch is John T Fox in Rochester NY and he was a jeweler!
I looked him up and the only difference is, that the auction has him moved to another state later on, and I find him still listed in a directory in NY much later when he was 75 yrs old. Born in 1825

Interesting if nothing else.

Tell me what you think.

SN 54579

The ONLY difference I see is the second round item to the left of where you wind this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&ss...0119690308&rd=1&rd=1


Sheila


Hampden 54579-50
 
Posts: 3094 | Location: La Plata, Maryland U.S.A. | Registered: May 22, 2004
Picture of Jerry Treiman
posted
The reason the number is too low for a Hampden is that this is a product of the New York Watch Co, in Springfield, Mass. This was a predecessor to Hampden.
 
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Sheila,

It is without question an early movement quite likely finished by the New York Watch Company but may have been sold later by Hampden. For that reason you might choose to call it a "Pre-Hampden Hampden" as the Hampden numbers are generally considered to have started a bit higher in the 58000 area. On page 15 of the Hampden Watch Company book by the late Jim Hernick and Bob Arnold there are similar watches depicted.

My feeling is this may have been a leftover sold as a private label but a very late New York Watch Company product from before the move to Springfield, Massachusetts. Similar things happened when Columbus Watch Company was sold and moved South Bend, Indiana some years later. I would have expected either a private label or blank dial originally came on this one, but fact is we have no way of knowing and we never will.

The Hampden records were lost long ago and all we can do today is speculate about such things.

Interesting watch, thanks for sharing it.

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

WOOPS!

Looks like I was typing while Jerry was posting. Big Grin Jerry explained it well.

Smile
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Sheila Gilbert
posted
The dial to the above watch is below and has Hampden dial.

I had it in my head that The New York Watch Co was AFTER the Hampden! DARN!


So is that the same deal with the other one too?

Even if it has the Hampden trademark on the movement, and a number higher than any known to be Hampdens?

I will post a picture


Sheila


Hampden 54579-75
 
Posts: 3094 | Location: La Plata, Maryland U.S.A. | Registered: May 22, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of Robert V. Jones
posted
I always get a kick out of the description words some of these sellers use when trying to explain a watch. I was trying to think back on what I called them when I first started?? LOL

This link Sheila posted says "GUTS" for the movement. Also funny how a lot of people associate them with human parts such as face neck body. Well I know it has nothing to do with this thread but I got a laugh this morning. Guts just does not give you a good visionary of the watch.
 
Posts: 3468 | Location: Cleveland, Georgia in the U.S.A. | Registered: February 03, 2006
IHC Member 163
Picture of Mark Cross
posted
Makes sense to me, Robert. If you call the dial the 'face', then why NOT call the works the 'guts'? Big Grin

Regards! Mark
 
Posts: 3831 | Location: Estill Springs, Tennessee, USA | Registered: December 02, 2002
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Sheila, Nice posting, I think you the seller is offering a vastly over-priced series 1 Hampden. It was evidently numbered as a "special" series as a private label by assigning the S/N below the the Hampden Numbering system. Unfortunately the "Deuber CANTON" case came to life long long after this watch was "born, and in my opinion was modified with a hole punch to accept this movement. It might approach about 1/2 what the seller is asking with an original case. Notice so far there are no takers. I think I will offer a $100.00 and see what Happens. Just my opinion tho.
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
After checking further I agree that the new york watch co would be a likely maker. It is unfortunate that it lacks the "hidden key" type case.
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Sheila, I guess I owe you a "thank you". After I advised the seller what I thought about this watch, I offered them a more fair negotiable price. The seller then countered with a most acceptable price and apologies for their original description of this piece.

So now I have a watch which could easily be part of the first "Hampden inventory" my 3-generations removed cousin James Abbe became part owner of (pg 9 col 2; "From Springfield to Moscow: the Complete Deuber Hampden Story').

Now I have to find a "period" KW case, because the Deuber-Canton case stretches the story about 12 years (1876 - 1888) too far.
 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Picture of Sheila Gilbert
posted
David,
I'm so glad that you had the chance to own a watch that you want, but better yet, at a better price too! It's good to hear some good things come out of our conversations about watches.
I especially like it that you let the seller know about his watch and he was so good about listening to you, sometimes they don't, so I think this is a success all around!!!!

Congratulations.


Sheila
 
Posts: 3094 | Location: La Plata, Maryland U.S.A. | Registered: May 22, 2004
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Thanks to Sheila, I now have the ? vintageN.Y.W.Co.Springfield and comparing it with one of my Hampden's of same vintage, I see two basic differences;
1. The N.Y.W.CoSp. has Humongous Jewels.
2. The N.Y.W.Co has Humongous Balance Weights.

Other than that they could/did come from the same plate cutting and drilling design process.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
Detail N.Y.W.Co.Spr.

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
IHC Life Member
Picture of David Abbe
posted
And the Hampden of similar wintage

 
Posts: 6492 | Location: Southern California in the USA | Registered: July 19, 2007
Picture of Sheila Gilbert
posted
Wow I see what you mean when you see them together like that.

A great way to compare.

Thank you


Sheila
 
Posts: 3094 | Location: La Plata, Maryland U.S.A. | Registered: May 22, 2004
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