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South Bend 337 and 345 Questions and Database "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Hi

I have a question about a South Bend pocket watch. The watch is a marked 337 18s 17 jewel. I have a list of serial numbers for South Bend watches, but do not see 337’s shown. If I look-up the serial number it references a 345 18s 17 jewel. The Cooksey Shugart watch guide lists the 337 watch, does anyone have more info on this watch.

Thanks

Keith
 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

South-Bend Model 2, Grade 337...


This is one where there is no clear answer. South-Bend Model 2, Grade 337 movement numbers surface as being within runs of published movement number listings originally assigned to and blocked for the Grade 345 which is desirable due to its damaskeening design and high quality finish.

Most of our interest in the Grade 337 movements is in the fact they are somewhat of an oddity. Although listed in South-Bend catalogues there were never any specific numbers assigned for them. Speculation is the Grade 337 may have been essentially along the lines of "private label" watches made as a way for jewelers to have an item for sale that was not available from a competitor down the street. Those collecting every South-Bend grade consider the Grade 337 a must-have item.

South-Bend 345 number 528324 in marked South-Bend Case...

 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Thank you Lindell for your expert analysis. I have a few more questions:

Is the South Bend 337 always marked on the movement as a 337? Or, do you have to find a 345 with serial numbers that fall within the range you listed above?

Does anyone know the years that the 337 were produced?
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Ernie

This would be a good topic for the members to list any serial numbers they have for the 337 and note any special markings. The two are that I have are 534279 and 534690 and both marked with 337 within a fancy boxed outline. I have number 534117 but that one is a marked 345 so... the mystery continues.

Note that this example number 534279 does not have the Adjusted markings on it like the 345 like Lindell's picture in the above post. My other example is marked that same way except that one number 534690 also has "Double Roller" located between the case screw and the serial number.

If we get enough examples we may be able to determine the range for the Grade 337 movements. If this range is determined the 345 will have a somewhat lower production total. We could use this topic to post numbers for both the Grade 337 and the Grade 345 that would help narrow it down.

Keith

Shown here is 337 movement number 534279

 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Keith:

The dasmaskeening is also different than the 345 I have in my collection.

Be sure to read my 337 analysis under the "Help Update the "Complete Guide to Watches" forum.

Ernie
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
We need more information on both the 337 and 345 please post yours.

Here is 337 movement number 534279

 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Grade 337 movement number 534690 note the "Double Roller" marking...

 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
My marked 345 is number 528635. It is marked as adjusted to 3 positions.

 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
I am starting a list of serial number for 337 and 345 South Bends. Please post your numbers and indicate if they are marked with grade number or not, also marked as adjusted or not,

Ernie
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
We have 4 watch serial numbers reported. there must be more out there. Please help us out and post you numbers. Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
A Friend who also collects South Bend Watches just called. He has a 337 with Serial Number 534767 and a 345 with Serial Number 534195.

This gives a spread of only 84 watches between the last 345 we have listed and the first 337 we have listed.

Here are the numbers we have so far"
528324 345
528635 345
534195 345
534279 337
534690 337
534767 337
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Ernie

You missed the 345 serial number I posted #534117

Keith
 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Keith, You are right. I did miss that one.

Here is the new list ( all are Marked so far):
517220 345
528324 345
528635 345
534117 345
534195 345
534279 337
534690 337
534767 337

If the numbers listed above for grade 337 represent beginning and ending and all the serial numbers assigned in between were for 337 then there were at least 488 grade 337's made.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
I also posted this reply under the "Help Update the "Complete Guide to Watches"" forum.

As of this date we have only received serial numbers for 3 South Bend Grade 337 watches. the numbers collected so far are:

534279 337
534690 337
534767 337

This leaves a span of 488 watches if all of the numbers between the lowest and the highest were used. We need more serial numbers reported as this is not enough numbers to make any kind of judgment call.

My guess is if the 337 were simply a private label watch then we are going to find some grade 345's intermixed between the lowest and highest 337 numbers we have recorded so far.

Please Report more 337 and 345 numbers to us. If you don't want to post the numbers you can email them to me at: logaent1@clearwire.net
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Ernie

Looking back on old posts I found this post from Andre showing a 345 with serial number of 517443. Another number for the list.

Keith
 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Keith:

I found that yesterday when I was looking back. I added it to our list but I didn't repost an update because it has not changed or narrowed down the beginning or ending of the 337.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Here is the latest update of South Bend 345 and 337 watches:

517220 345
517443 345
528324 345
528635 345
534117 345
534195 345
534279 337
534690 337
534767 337

Members we need your participation. Please post your serial numbers so we can continue with our research. Thank you!
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
As of this date we have registered only 6 grade 345 watches and 3 grade 337 watches. If this is all there is then these watches are even more rare than we initially expected.

There have been 533 views of this post but no one has added any new watches or emailed me with any new watches since April 11, 2009.

We sure wouild like to add to this list so we can make a solid recommendation to have the Complete Price Guide of Watches updated.

If you have a South Bend 345 or 337 watch please post that infomation and help us out.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

You guys are doing great!

Here are two more confirmed Grade 345 sightings with attribution links...

>>> 534385 -- Adjusted to 3 Positions

>>> 534946 -- Adjusted to 3 Positions

Inserting these numbers into Ernie's list will show we have a trend developing!

Wink
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
With Lindell's two 345 the count looks like this:

517220 345 Marked
517443 345 Marked
528324 345 Marked
528635 345 Marked
534117 345 Marked
534195 345 Marked
(84 unknown watches)
534279 337 Marked
(106 unknown watches)
534385 345 Marked
(305 unknown watches)
534690 337 Marked
534767 337 Marked
(179 Unknown watches)
534946 345 Marked

This adds a new dimension. There is now a confirmed 345 number 534385 in the middle of the 337 production. There are 84 unknown watches between the first 337 we have reported and the previous 345 that was reported. There is 106 unknown watches before the next 345 reported.

In the last set there are 179 unknown watches,

All of the 337 grades reported to date have been from Production Run 4.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Life Member
South-Bend Expert
Picture of Frank Kusumoto
posted
I have two to report.

The first is SN 534080, Marked "345". That extends the range of the known list for the 534,000 downwards. I would guess (but not bet, because these serial are seriously goofy), that 534001-534080 are all Grade 345's.

Second is SN 534263, Marked "345". That extends the range of known 345's upwards towards the first known 347 by some 60+ numbers. I hope some people are still looking out for these watches. I think a few more data points are needed to make a good guess at where the limits are for the ranges.

I am focusing here on the 534001-535000 range. Now it looks like this, the ones I added are bolded:

534080 345 Marked
534117 345 Marked
534195 345 Marked
534263 345 Marked

534279 337 Marked

534385 345 Marked

534690 337 Marked
534767 337 Marked


534946 345 Marked


And here some pics of the more interesting of the movements...





 
Posts: 1045 | Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: October 08, 2004
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Thanks Frank.

We are getting closer but we are still a long way from any definitive list that we can make a valid determination with.

Does anyone in IHC 185 have any additional grade 345 or 337 South Bends to report?
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Everyone,

It just gets better and better.

We received this eMail from a gentleman who did a search regarding his South-Bend 337 and found this topic...


_______________________________


Lindell V. Riddle, President

I have come across the South Bend discussion concerning the 18S Grade 345 and 337.

Recently I acquired S/N 534869 17J LS OF marked 337, gold lettering on the movement,
marked Double Roller. It has a white SS Arabic Dial with red 5 minute increment numbers.

It is housed in a Keystone Watch Case, Silveroid, S/N 858790.

Hope the information is useful.

On online databases the watch is identified as a grade 345.

Robert Wojciechowski

_______________________________


Those who are searching the internet for information on these will find their way here.

And the beat goes on!

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
With Mr. Wojciechoski's new reported 337 this is what the new list looks like:

Serial #Grade Run Grade Adjusted

517220 345 1 Marked Marked
517443 345 1 Marked Marked
528324 345 3 Marked Marked
528635 345 3 Marked Marked
534080 345 4 Marked Marked
534117 345 4 Marked Marked
534195 345 4 Marked Marked
534263 345 4 Marked Marked
534279 337 4 Marked Not Marked
534385 345 4 Marked Marked
534690 337 4 Marked Not Marked
534767 337 4 Marked Marked
534869 337 4 Marked Not Marked
534946 345 4 Marked Marked
_________________________________
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC Member 48
Picture of Keith Klimkowicz
posted
Here is serial number from recent Ebay sales

517542 345 1 Marked Marked
517660 345 1 Marked Marked
 
Posts: 839 | Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
Here is the new list:

Serial # Grade Run - Grade Marked - Adjusted

517220_345__1_____Marked_____Marked
517443_345__1_____Marked_____Marked
517542_345__1_____Marked_____Marked
517660_345__1_____Marked_____Marked

528324_345__3_____Marked_____Marked
528635_345__3_____Marked_____Marked

534080_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
534117_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
534195_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
534263_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
534279_337__4_____Marked_____Not Marked
534385_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
534690_337__4_____Marked_____Not Marked
534767_337__4_____Marked_____Marked
534869_337__4_____Marked_____Not Marked
534946_345__4_____Marked_____Marked
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Another marked 345 has shown up, number 528807 with single-sunk dial and marked "Adjusted 3 Positions" on the barrel cover.

The pattern of these "mixed-runs" is falling into place, there is no longer any doubt.

Wink
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Member 1377
posted
Here are two that I have 345 S/N 517555 marked adjusted to 3 positions 17 jewels and 337 S/N 534877 marked 17 jewel double roller.

Ted
 
Posts: 5 | Location: California in the USA | Registered: February 16, 2010
IHC Member 1393
posted
Here's my 345 to add to the list:
#517151 17j adjusted in 20yr Phila swing out case
 
Posts: 94 | Location: Cockeysville, Maryland in the USA | Registered: October 28, 2009
posted
I have one marked "345", serial number: 528783 and it's also marked "Adjusted to 3 positions".

This is very exciting research! Smile
 
Posts: 88 | Location: Portland, Oregon in the USA | Registered: May 25, 2010
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

HERE ARE THE LATEST (UPDATED 12/2014) 345 AND 337 LISTINGS:


Number Grade Run - Grade Marked - Adjusted Marking

517093__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517151__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517220__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517443__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517542__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517555__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517558__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517637__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517660__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted
517680__345___1____Marked_______Adjusted

517712__345___2____Marked_______Adjusted
517854__345___2____Marked_______Adjusted
517862__345___2____Marked_______Adjusted
517867__345___2____Marked_______Adjusted

(Note: The First Run, Numbers 517001-517700 were Single-Roller
then numbers 517701-518000 were Double-Roller and Second Run.
From then on all 345 and the 337 movements were Double-Roller.)

528033_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528111_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528121_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528157_337__3_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
528197_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528203_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528262_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528281_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528324_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528380_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528635_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528721_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528783_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528807_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted
528950_345__3_____Marked_____Adjusted

534080_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534097_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534117_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534133_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534171_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534182_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534195_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534263_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted
534279_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked Adjusted or Double Roller<<< 337
534385_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted

534416_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534690_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534705_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534767_337__4_____Marked_____Marked (??) <<< 337
534851_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534869_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534870_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534877_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534879_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337
534883_337__4_____Marked_____NOT Marked <<< 337

534946_345__4_____Marked_____Adjusted


Grade 337 examples found thus far are from the 3rd and 4th run.
The 4th run are marked as (337) and 17-Jewels, Double Roller, but NO Grade 337 is Marked as Adjusted.

All our Grade 345 are marked <345> and 17-Jewels, Adjusted to 3 Positions but NOT marked Double Roller.

Material in this Database is subject to updates and revision whenever additional information becomes available.

If you have a 337 or 345 in your collection or if you can confirm
any through personal sighting or pictures please post here or
send an eMail to southbend@roadrunner.com Thank You!

Last updated December of 2014 with our latest sightings.

Wink
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
posted
517558 is a 345 marked adjusted.

Thanks,

Jared
 
Posts: 1634 | Location: North Dakota in the USA | Registered: December 09, 2009
Picture of Ernie Loga
posted
I have a 528262 Marked 345 Adjusted.
 
Posts: 910 | Location: Wisconsin in the U.S.A. | Registered: April 28, 2008
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