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Ball 12 size case? "Click" to Login or Register 
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
I have a question about Illinois Ball 12 size cases all the advertising in Roy Ehrhardt's price indicators show that the Illinois Ball 19 jewel movements were cased in white gold filled cases, I bought one recently a Ball 12 size yellow gold filled case marked BALL MODEL Keystone watch case J. Boss 14 K. Gold Filled. 7772803. Were some of the 12 size Illinois Ball's cased in yellow gold filled cases?

Larry Buchan
 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Hmmm...

I would expect 12-size Ball Model cases were available in yellow. But might your case be green gold-filled? With most Keystone J. Boss cases during that later 1920s and through the 1930s time-frame 14K gold-filled tended to mean the case was white or green and 10K gold-filled would be yellow or at times even the possibility however remote of rose.

By the way, is your dial pressed metal?

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
Hello Lindell:

As far as I can tell the case is yellow gold filled, I would post a picture but seeing that I am in the hospital that's not possible at the moment, maybe when I get home. I am going to get my wife to bring my measuring gauge tonight to make sure this is a 12 size case. As far as the dial if it is the Howard Series #2 that I am looking for I won't be able to tell until the watch arrives. I will keep you posted.

Larry Buchan
 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
Hello all you 12 size watch expert's out there. I finally got some photos taken of my Ball Illinois 12 size case. Please let me know what you think.

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
View of back of watch.

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
Here is a view of the inside of the case back. Just received some good news from my doctors. After spending 2 1/2 months in the hospital. I am finally going home this week.

 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Larry,

Happy that you were able to stay in contact with all of us in Chapter 185 while staying in the hospital. But I'm sure glad to hear that you are going to be released real soon! Smile

Best wishes to you.

Debbie

Smile
 
Posts: 5207 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Great news Larry!

About your case, my bet it is green gold-filled which would explain the "14K Gold-Filled" marking. It really does look green in your images. Do I understand correctly you have only the case, no movement? If you have the complete watch is your dial of the pressed metal design? Some of those are very ornate.

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Railway Historian
IHC Life Member
Site Moderator
Picture of Larry Buchan
posted
Hello Lindell:

Now, I Do Not Have a movement for this pocket watch case, that was my main question, would it have been used for a Ball Illinois 12 size movement, as I said previously, all the advertisements that I have seen in Ehrhardt's books and Price guides. Show them in white gold filled cases, does anyone out there know if the Ball Illinois movements were placed in different cases?

Larry Buchan
 
Posts: 3370 | Location: Okotoks Alberta Canada | Registered: November 22, 2002
12-Size Expert
Picture of Robert Schussel
posted
Larry

The 17j 12 size Balls typically came in a yellow gold filled case. .One that I recently purchased came in a J Boss Extra case. The inside of the outer cover is identical to yours.The inside dust cover looks similar to Keystone Howard cases that have an engraved ring. On the ring is engraved Ball Watch Co. Cleveland.

I own several 19j 12 size Ball watches .All of the ones I have seen were in 14kt or 18kt white gold filled cases.

There is an ad that shows a 14kt solid green gold case and a 18kt solid gold white gold case but I have never actually seen one .

If you ever plan on selling the case I would happy to purchase it from you as my 17j watch is in a banged up case.

Bob
 
Posts: 621 | Location: Vallejo, California U.S.A. | Registered: July 10, 2004
Picture of Jerry Treiman
posted
I am pretty certain that Larry's case is for the Illinois Ball, which is not a standard 12-size. This is the style case used for many of the first Illinois Ball watches. The Waltham Ball were in a much earlier style case. I don't believe the Waltham Ball (which is standard 12-size) would fit anyway.
 
Posts: 1455 | Location: Los Angeles, California USA | Registered: January 14, 2003
Picture of Donald Evans
posted
Just got this 12s Ball, Ser. No. 400831. Don't know manufacturer. Case is identical to yours except back engraving. This Ball Model case has no extra screw markings and I would venture a guess that it is original. If you know who made the movement I would appreciate the info.
Also, If you would like more pics I can email them to you.

Don Evans IHC-1113
texasfolks@kingwoodcable.net

 
Posts: 18 | Location: Willis, Texas in the USA | Registered: April 05, 2008
Picture of Donald Evans
posted
Ball 12s

 
Posts: 18 | Location: Willis, Texas in the USA | Registered: April 05, 2008
Picture of Donald Evans
posted
Ball12s

 
Posts: 18 | Location: Willis, Texas in the USA | Registered: April 05, 2008
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Hello Don,

Your number B400831 fits perfectly as one of the Ball-Illinois 12-size watches which were numbered B400001 through B408000 during beginning with 1927 production.

These show up fairly regularly with various styles of painted and textured "Ball" marked dials including those with "Secometer" style seconds registers. According to Bill Meggers in his "Illinois Encyclopedia" there were also some with porcelain-enamel dials which is questionable on thin, late 1920s watches, so he may have been thinking of the earlier 12-size Ball Walthams.

Here is additional information...

"Find-Or-Search" for "Ball-Illinois 12-size"

And: Specifics on Ball-Illinois 12-size from "Illinois Encyclopedia" listings

Hope this helps,

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
Picture of Donald Evans
posted
Lindell,

Thanks for the information. I will try to see if I can get the dial restored. I will post pictures
when done. It keeps absolutely fine time!

Don
Submarine Chief
 
Posts: 18 | Location: Willis, Texas in the USA | Registered: April 05, 2008
12-Size Expert
Picture of Robert Schussel
posted
Don
The serial number indicates that your watch was one of the earlier ones made.

12 size Illinois Balls are rarely seen in non Ball Model cases as most 12 size cases don't fit.

Bob
 
Posts: 621 | Location: Vallejo, California U.S.A. | Registered: July 10, 2004
Picture of Donald Evans
posted
Robert,
Thanks for the info. I have really gone from no information to more than I hoped for. You guys are great. I love your Avatar. I had a Gruen Pentagon that was given in commeraton of the second Cotton Bowl.

Don Evans
Submarine Chief

 
Posts: 18 | Location: Willis, Texas in the USA | Registered: April 05, 2008
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