July 12, 2014, 18:52
Buster BeckBall Marked 18 size Cases, When Did They Start?
Ball Watch Company started marking their cases "Ball Model" for the 18S by 1906.
That is where most knowledgeable collectors draw the "Ball-Model" line on case markings. With very few exceptions I believe it is fair to say that with 16-size Ball-Walthams we should expect to find "Ball-Model" marked cases by about 1902 and with the 18-size Ball-Hamiltons by 1906 production.
One more point about the beginnings of specifically marked as "Ball-Model" cases, the 18-size Ball-Elgins which were produced only in 1904 and 1905 are usually found in cases without "Ball-Model" markings which seems to further support the "by 1906" time-frame reference.
I think Ball began using cases that conformed to his later "Ball-Model" specifications by as early as 1900 on the 16-size and 1904 on the 18-size but they lacked "Ball-Model" markings.
But, as far back as the mid-1890s Ball-Howards were cased and timed in Jennot & Shiebler cases that had "Webb C. Ball" markings.
The Ball Watch Company cased their movements in Cleveland but likely sold some of their 18-size movements in the seller's choice of other cases. Just because their watches were cased and timed in their facility should not be taken to imply that every 18-size movement was sold in a "Ball-Model" case.
Since the 18-size "Ball Model" cases were clearly available by 1906 on they will always be preferred for the later movements, I'm sure we all agree that if you have a choice that's the way to go. Since there are far more movements than cases surviving that means the value of these desirable marked cases will continue to escalate.
Ball had a "sold complete cased and timed in their facility" policy, this began long before there were marked as "Ball Model" cases, some of the early examples have the very same basic mechanical features as we normally associate with Ball Model cases, but were not marked as such. The easiest way to recognize true Ball cases is by their wide light reflector ring.
An ad in the 1902 Ball Catalog states:
"Many good watches are ruined as timekeepers by being forced into cheap, imperfect sweat shop cases that do not fit properly. We have had some sad results in this direction, and intend to avoid such dangers in future by sending out complete watches only"
We'll never know for sure, but based on Ball's advertising and the evidence of the watches we find, I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion that Ball was buying cases to their specification before there were marked Ball Model cases.
regards,
bb
Ad Picture 1;
July 14, 2014, 06:07
John ScottThat is a good summary, and a helpful one.
The Ball catalog pages you show are actually from a catalog that must have been issued in 1901 as it has calendar pages covering the period from July 1901 to June 1902.
The Ball catalog of 1902, on page 2, uses the terminology “Complete Watches Only” (this catalog is reproduced in Ehrhardt Book 2). The 1902 catalog also refers to “The new thin model 16 size three quarter plate 16 size watch”.
In the Ball catalog dated 01 May 1903, on page 16, mention is made of the “16 size Ball Model Watch” and there is the statement “Sold as a complete watch only”.
In the Ball catalog dated 01 May 1905, on page 16, mention is made of the “16 size ball Model Watch” and, on the following page, there is the paragraph: “Sold as complete watches only in Ball Model Cases made to fit them properly and sent out in reliable time-keeping order at the following uniform standard prices”.
Clearly, over the very early years of the twentieth century, there was a development of terminology. From the references quoted, the appellation Ball Model, in respect of cases, appears to have been introduced after the middle of 1903 and by the middle of 1905.
July 16, 2014, 20:49
John ScottSince writing the notes, above, I have been able to refer to a 1904 Ball publication (notebook) which also carries the wording "Sold as complete watches only in Ball Model cases made to fit them properly ....". The message clearly applies to the 16s watches on offer. Whether it was intended to apply, also, to 18s watches is not perfectly clear as the message and the listing of 18s watches on offer are on different pages.
From this, I believe we can pin down the introduction of the Ball Model terminology for cases to 1904, for 16s cases, at least. Caution is still needed, though, because full details of the connection between advertising and sales are not knowable.
July 17, 2014, 13:12
Buster BeckGreat information and facts John and Lindell.
I started this thread wanting for our membership and guests a quick reference point on when the 18sz Ball watches first started being cased in "Ball" factory marked cases. Most of what I posted was taken from several hours of researching prior IHC articles.
So we have lots of very good useful information on the 18sz Ball factory cased watches as well as the 16sz Ball Waltham factory cased watches in this thread condensed in one place.....
regards,
bb
August 24, 2015, 13:04
George FrickFound this great information using the "Find-Or-Search" feature.
It answered several questions I had about 18s Ball cases.
So much good information in the IHC185 archives.
Thanks everyone who contributed.
August 28, 2015, 09:42
John ScottRecently I had an opportunity of examining a Ball catalog from 1900. It contains the same wording under the heading Complete Watches Only that is presented in the excerpt from the 1901 / 1902 catalog that is reproduced in the first post of this thread. Furthermore, the 1900 catalog makes it clear that both 16s and 18s Ball standard watches were offered for sale as complete watches only. There is mention of the trade-marking of dials and movement plates but not of cases.