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Ball-Waltham Dial Question "Click" to Login or Register 
IHC Life Member
Certified Watchmaker
Picture of Chris Abell
posted
This just came in on a Waltham Royal S12 (not ball)
all dial feet correct, what can you tell me about it haven't seen this one before, private label?

 
Posts: 2625 | Location: Northeast Texas in the USA | Registered: November 20, 2003
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

Thanks for the question Chris,

What you have there is a Ball Patented Dial which would have originated at the Ball Watch Company in Cleveland, Ohio and would have been installed on a Ball Movement at that location then sold as a complete Ball Watch most likely at Webb C. Ball Jewelers in Cleveland, Ohio or at a Ball Authorized Time Inspector's place of business.

That dial would have started out on a 12-size Ball-Waltham movement (dial feet are in same positions) and in recent years someone, wanting to have 2 Ball Watches to sell, moved the dial to a Waltham Royal that would then have been dishonestly sold as being a Ball Watch. And then the Waltham dial was placed on the Ball-marked movement and the same trick played in reverse.

Disreputable sellers have done the same thing with Ball Brotherhoods, putting the Brotherhood dial on an Official RR Standard movement and the ORRS dial on the Brotherhood movement. Then both are sold as Brotherhood Watches although neither are in reality what they are claimed to be.

I have watched in horror as this took place before my own eyes at benches and even at (you-know-who) regional tables.

Sadly that highly unethical "anything-for-a-buck" attitude has done a lot of harm to our hobby and continues to cause a great deal of confusion, particularly to uninformed collectors. That same kind of disreputable seller spins "tall-tales" making up stories and taking advantage of novice collectors and those who are easily confused fooled because they have not done the research it takes to become knowledgeable enough to acquire the necessary expertise in this area. I have spent over 20 years on this and I am still learning! Our responsibility is to pass along correctly configured watches to generations yet unborn.

Let us point out here that the dials on Ball Watches were installed at the Ball Watch Company in Cleveland along with special modifications, finishing, final adjustments, installation of dial and hands, casing and timing. Ball Watches were sold as a COMPLETE WATCH ONLY, those are the facts that some slick sellers do not want collectors to know.

Study, read, ask questions, learn and then... "You won't be fooled again!"

Hope this helps,

Lindell

Wink
 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC Life Member
Certified Watchmaker
Picture of Chris Abell
posted
Hi Lindell,

Good to see you posting again, a mine of knowledge, not having the more common Ball stamping I have seen on other S12, another mystery solved.
Recently had a few O size Ball queens in, surprisingly they ran well in RR timekeeping after service.

thanks

Chris
just got in a very interesting GP I have permission to post pictures once completed.
 
Posts: 2625 | Location: Northeast Texas in the USA | Registered: November 20, 2003
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