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what's the diffenrence of hamilton 922 and 922MP "Click" to Login or Register 
posted
Hello,I am still confused about hamilton 922 and 922MP. In my view, the difference is the marker of the bridge: masterpiece. Some one told me that, 922MP has a guillaume balance.is that true? thanks for help.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
Prior to 1928 Hamilton cased some 922's in the special cases that we usually associate the Masterpieces as being cased in without Masterpiece being stamped on the center bridge. Today these are still listed as 922MP's in the Hamilton serial number records.

Some late model 922MP's used "Invar" in the balances, however I know nothing about them being called a "guillaume balance". Records show about 15,700 made as 922's, and something like 1,400 prior to 1928 were unmarked 922MP's and from 1928-1936 there were 1,200 of the 922MP's made that were marked MASTERPIECE. The "marked" examples will always be the most desirable.

regards,
bb

 
Posts: 6376 | Location: Texas in the USA | Registered: July 27, 2009
posted
Thanks.Buster Beck
That means 922MP has a invar balance,922 has a bimetal balance?
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Thanks Buster for your post and attached image.

From the Nobel Prize in Physics 1920: Charles Edouard Guillaume - Biographical

"A chance observation by Guillaume on the coefficient of expansion of nickel-iron alloys led to a systematic investigation of a whole series of alloys and the discovery of invar, an alloy with a very low coefficient of expansion; elinvar, for which the thermoelastic coefficient is practically zero, i.e. Young's modulus constant, over a considerable temperature range; together with other useful alloys. The applications of invar were quickly recognized and the material was used in rapid methods for the measurement of geodetic baselines. The alloy is widely used in instruments of precision, such as thermostats and pendulums of astronomic clocks. Guillaume's total compensating balance for high-grade watches and chronometers, which eliminates the secondary error, was perfected by an elinvar hair spring."
.
 
Posts: 5198 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
No, it is my understanding that all used the standard bi-metallic balances (expansion cut in balance wheels to allow for temperature ranges), but after 1931 " INVAR" was used in these bi-metallic balances with the position of the "cut" on the balance wheel in a slightly different position than the earlier balances.

While I am not an expert, this is my understanding of these hi grade watches.

I am familiar with "Guillaume" and his studies and writings on alloys and expansions of different metals over a normal temperature range. As said "Invar" was used in the 922MP's after 1931 however I have not seen these particular balances ever being called"Guillaume" balances in the 922MP's.

regards,
bb
 
Posts: 6376 | Location: Texas in the USA | Registered: July 27, 2009
posted
Hello,Buster

Why I can not upload the pictures? I want to show the different cut of the balance.

picture 1
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
Administrative Assistant
Picture of Dr. Debbie Irvine
posted

Please see this topic:

HELP IN POSTING IMAGES FOR HOSTING ON OUR IHC185 DISCUSSION SITE

Extremely large images cannot be viewed by those with slower internet connections or smaller screens. Due to those considerations and to avoid overloading storage capacity our system is set up to not accept poster size images.


>> Proper size: 640 X 480 Pixels
>> Resolution: approximately 72 Pixels/Inch


 
Posts: 5198 | Location: Northern Ohio in the U.S.A. | Registered: December 04, 2002
posted
which one is the correct balance of hamilton 922MP

Movement Number 3008581

picture 1
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
posted
another picture of 922MP balance

Movement Number ________

 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
IHC Member 1291
Picture of Buster Beck
posted
quote:
No, it is my understanding that all used the standard bi-metallic balances (expansion cut in balance wheels to allow for temperature ranges), but after 1931 " INVAR" was used in these bi-metallic balances with the position of the "cut" on the balance wheel in a slightly different position than the earlier balances.


I believe I've already answered your question in my earlier post.

regards,
bb
 
Posts: 6376 | Location: Texas in the USA | Registered: July 27, 2009
posted
Hello, Buster.
I understand what you mentioned.
But after I searched the serial number. these two movements is produced before 1931.So it confused me.My question is which balance I listed is before 1931? because they have different cut. thanks
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Chong Qing in China | Registered: August 27, 2011
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

The Hamilton 12-size Masterpiece was regarded as Hamilton's Finest of Fine Watches even being available in Iridium Platinum Cases. (See first image below showing silver dial, gold hands and numerals and Platinum Case.) Buster's explanation of 922 vs. 922MP is spot-on, the latter IS considered a Hamilton Masterpiece (marked as such carries a premium in value) whereas the 922 was the more common grade right beneath it. Masterpiece movements were specially adjusted, timed as cased.

Your watches are BOTH considered as and they are MARKED as Hamilton Masterpiece movements.

First question...

Do you have any reason to think the balance has been changed on either watch?

And, do you believe something is wrong with one of the balance wheels, if so, why?

Second Question...

Have you checked the movement numbers on our published "Gelson List" of Hamilton Movement Numbers?

Third Question...

Do you understand the significance of there being "Blocked Numbers" which were often used by watch companies?

You will notice that Hamilton's "NEW THIN MODEL 12-SIZE" introduced during 1924 production and they BLOCKED (meaning only those designated movement numbers will be used in that series) the 3000000 series of numbers for these movements produced between 1924 and 1935 using the exclusive 3000000 group of numbers. These appear on our numbered pages 20 and 21 and being exclusively BLOCKED NUMBERS they are out of sequence with all other numbers during this 1924 through 1935 time period. That is why nearly any other Hamilton List you find anywhere else will be noticeably inaccurate.

More of this is explained at this link...

Hamilton Movement Number Listings Preserved by John F. Gelson

Be sure to read my posted February 21, 2006 17:43 explanation to help better understand the Hamilton Blocked Numbers for these NEW MODEL THIN 12-SIZE watches and how other number lists are fatally flawed.

Hope this helps you and others.

Lindell

Wink


Hamilton Masterpiece 3008339 from my collection...


 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
IHC President
Life Member
Picture of Lindell V. Riddle
posted

This image may be of help.

Masterpiece 3008339 movement details...


 
Posts: 10553 | Location: Northeastern Ohio in the USA | Registered: November 19, 2002
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